. >> that wealthier people are going to -- >> this sounds like a barbed question. >> this is an obvious question. politicians need to tell americans the truth about medicare and medicaid. you do understand that not only are people going to have to pay more for their medicare, wealthier americans, but all beneficiaries are going to be getting less in 10 15 years from now and medical providers are going to be getting paid less. >> the question is, can we -- >> do you understand that? >> i understand -- >> no no, no. that's basic math. >> joe, i don't accept your premise that we are doomed to always be parting with 10% increases, 15% increases in health care. we've got to focus on wellness. we have to focus on -- >> no no. oh, my god. governor, governor. excuse me governor. this is a matter of basic math. by the way -- >> it's also a matter of effectiveness. >> you can look at omb, the congressional budget office, the peterson foundation. you can look at the concord coalition. you can look at liberal economists. you can look at conserveative economists. this a matter of basic arithmetic. >